MS SQL Data Warehousing - Self taught AS continued...

Author

Self taught AS continued...

ChrisR

2005-08-19, 8:23 pm

Thanks for the insights Peter. Do most of the BI folks do the technical
stuff on they're own, or do they have the technical people do it for them?
Is it common to have someone doing the technical but not alot of business
involvement? I hadnt realized all this.... and will perhaps rethink if I
want to do this or not. Has this been others experience? If I were to go
from being a DBA to a DW guy tomorrow, would I be thrown much more in the
mix with the business folks?

TIA, ChrisR

"Peter Nolan" <peter@peternolan.com> wrote in message
news:1124359906.670335.301440@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Chris,
> if you want to be a 'DW Guy' (claimed or for real) feel free to check
> out my personal site www.peternolan.com.
>
> There are a lot of papers, presentations FAQs, and pointers to good
> books which will start you on you way. There is even published code of
> all the processing required to build large dimensional data warehouses
> as well as a free version of an ETL tool we used to use in the 90s. (It
> is free because it has been made redundant by the next version.)
>
> My opinion:
>
> My personal opinion is learning AS has nothing to do with 'becoming a
> DW guy'......my opinion is that by learning AS you would be 'a DBA who
> knows AS'.
>
> Almost surprisingly, I am yet to use AS in a real project......I have
> used other cube products such as Cognos and Essbase.....(At one time I
> held the uneviable record of designing the worlds largest
> implementation of a single implementation of Essbase at 500 concurrent
> users to a single essbase instance.)
>
> There is much more to DWing and BI than a 'cube database' or even a
> 'reporting tool'.
>
> DWing/BI is not about technology and it never has been.....it is only
> the technology people who think BI is abount technology....
>
> When I look at the words BI I see 'Business' and 'Intelligence' I don't
> see IT... ;-)
>
> I believe the most valuable people on a BI project are those that
> understand the business.
>
> The people who understand the tools such as AS can be hired as
> 'outsourced developers' from places like India/China/Russia for very
> low rates. People in the west simply cannot compete on rates with that
> group of 'outsourced developers'.
>
> Like I said, just my opinion... ;-)
>
> Best Regards....
>
> Peter Nolan
> www.peternolan.com
>

Peter Nolan

2005-08-23, 7:23 am

Hi Chris,
in my experience it is quite common for the IT shop of a company to do
the first iteration or two of a DWH and it is quite common for them to
be successful, especially now with lots more materials available.

However, it is also quite common for the DWH to be seen as a 'failure'
to one extent or another and for the business to then engage external
people.

The normal issues apply....to do simple things is pretty simple, to do
complex things is complex and takes experience.

Business Managers in western countries are now quite prepared to engage
external consultants/Systems Integrators etc remedy 'failures' and are
becoming more and more prepared to get the DWH built or upgraded by
external people. (It was not that long ago that very few companies
allowed DWH development to go outside the company to any great degree.)

And those 'external people' are becoming more and more 'outsourced'
from India mainly but also Russia (And I see the odd time a chinese
company is trying to get in on the act..... )

The jobs that are going out to lower wage countries are the technology
jobs...although it is clear that outsourcers are wanting to go up the
value chain.

My opinion is just that a person focusing entirely on the technology
side of DWH/BI and trying to make some sort of longer term 'career' or
longer term income out of it would be well advised to consider that
there are hundreds of thousands of people on very low wages who are
also trying to do the same.

Technology experience is easy to transplant from one place to
another.......but business knowledge and experience is much more
difficult to transplant and to outsource.....I just see more longer
term job opportunities in DWH by being able to bridge teh gap between
business and IT.....

I believe it enough that this has been the approach I have taken for 14
years now... ;-)

Even though I do business consulting I do spend a lot of the time doing
IT based consulting, but nearly all that time I am training people to
do that job in the future and making myself redundant......so if I am
making myself (and other people in that role) redundant.....I had
better have a 'plan B'...;-)

Then again, just my opinion... ;-)

Best Regards

Peter

Jim_OLAP

2005-08-25, 8:23 pm

Chris,

My role in my company was traditionally financial (MBA), but the technology
is getting easier and easier to develop with today, so savy business players
are learning the tools (VB, SQL server, AS, MDX ,Reporting Services) and
making their IT shops sweat.

Peter is right, -- diversify your talents!

If your in IT, go earn an MBA, and if your on the business side, learn the
technology (VB, SQL server, AS, MDX ,Reporting Services).

Good Luck,

Jim

"Peter Nolan" wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> in my experience it is quite common for the IT shop of a company to do
> the first iteration or two of a DWH and it is quite common for them to
> be successful, especially now with lots more materials available.
>
> However, it is also quite common for the DWH to be seen as a 'failure'
> to one extent or another and for the business to then engage external
> people.
>
> The normal issues apply....to do simple things is pretty simple, to do
> complex things is complex and takes experience.
>
> Business Managers in western countries are now quite prepared to engage
> external consultants/Systems Integrators etc remedy 'failures' and are
> becoming more and more prepared to get the DWH built or upgraded by
> external people. (It was not that long ago that very few companies
> allowed DWH development to go outside the company to any great degree.)
>
> And those 'external people' are becoming more and more 'outsourced'
> from India mainly but also Russia (And I see the odd time a chinese
> company is trying to get in on the act..... )
>
> The jobs that are going out to lower wage countries are the technology
> jobs...although it is clear that outsourcers are wanting to go up the
> value chain.
>
> My opinion is just that a person focusing entirely on the technology
> side of DWH/BI and trying to make some sort of longer term 'career' or
> longer term income out of it would be well advised to consider that
> there are hundreds of thousands of people on very low wages who are
> also trying to do the same.
>
> Technology experience is easy to transplant from one place to
> another.......but business knowledge and experience is much more
> difficult to transplant and to outsource.....I just see more longer
> term job opportunities in DWH by being able to bridge teh gap between
> business and IT.....
>
> I believe it enough that this has been the approach I have taken for 14
> years now... ;-)
>
> Even though I do business consulting I do spend a lot of the time doing
> IT based consulting, but nearly all that time I am training people to
> do that job in the future and making myself redundant......so if I am
> making myself (and other people in that role) redundant.....I had
> better have a 'plan B'...;-)
>
> Then again, just my opinion... ;-)
>
> Best Regards
>
> Peter
>
>

ChrisR

2005-08-30, 3:23 am

Thanks again Peter. Well Im going to give it a shot. I start a new job next
week as a DBA and will be doing some DWH. Well see how dealing with the biz
folks goes.
CR

"Peter Nolan" <peter@peternolan.com> wrote in message
news:1124796918.325617.318830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Chris,
> in my experience it is quite common for the IT shop of a company to do
> the first iteration or two of a DWH and it is quite common for them to
> be successful, especially now with lots more materials available.
>
> However, it is also quite common for the DWH to be seen as a 'failure'
> to one extent or another and for the business to then engage external
> people.
>
> The normal issues apply....to do simple things is pretty simple, to do
> complex things is complex and takes experience.
>
> Business Managers in western countries are now quite prepared to engage
> external consultants/Systems Integrators etc remedy 'failures' and are
> becoming more and more prepared to get the DWH built or upgraded by
> external people. (It was not that long ago that very few companies
> allowed DWH development to go outside the company to any great degree.)
>
> And those 'external people' are becoming more and more 'outsourced'
> from India mainly but also Russia (And I see the odd time a chinese
> company is trying to get in on the act..... )
>
> The jobs that are going out to lower wage countries are the technology
> jobs...although it is clear that outsourcers are wanting to go up the
> value chain.
>
> My opinion is just that a person focusing entirely on the technology
> side of DWH/BI and trying to make some sort of longer term 'career' or
> longer term income out of it would be well advised to consider that
> there are hundreds of thousands of people on very low wages who are
> also trying to do the same.
>
> Technology experience is easy to transplant from one place to
> another.......but business knowledge and experience is much more
> difficult to transplant and to outsource.....I just see more longer
> term job opportunities in DWH by being able to bridge teh gap between
> business and IT.....
>
> I believe it enough that this has been the approach I have taken for 14
> years now... ;-)
>
> Even though I do business consulting I do spend a lot of the time doing
> IT based consulting, but nearly all that time I am training people to
> do that job in the future and making myself redundant......so if I am
> making myself (and other people in that role) redundant.....I had
> better have a 'plan B'...;-)
>
> Then again, just my opinion... ;-)
>
> Best Regards
>
> Peter
>

Peter Nolan

2005-09-02, 8:23 pm

Hi Chris,
Good luck!!! I would suggest you read some of the book by Tom Peters
and think about business.....for people who are clear and logical
thinkers, how businesses work is relatively easy to come to grips with
except for the softer 'people aspects'......when I was starting out I
stayed close to the 'Sales and Marketing' aspects of businesses because
I found it easier to understand and it is also easier to model as well
as to influence a business based on new sales/marketing
methods/campaigns etc.....it was only after a while I felt comfortable
to talk to the Actuaries...those guys speak a whole different
language...finally I did more in accounting and finance....I still like
Sales and Marketing the most!!!

Best Regards

Peter

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