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Home > Archive > Getting Started with dBASE > November 2006 > Web apps : dbase vs php/perl
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Web apps : dbase vs php/perl
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| What is experimented people in web apps opinion about dbase versus other programmation languages especially php and perl ? Plus and minus taking also into account all questions of security programming ? Thanks for advice.
Dom
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| Ken Mayer [dBVIPS] 2006-10-28, 7:16 pm |
| dlit wrote:
> What is experimented people in web apps opinion about dbase versus other programmation languages especially php and perl ? Plus and minus taking also into account all questions of security programming ? Thanks for advice.
I can't get into all of it ... the biggest issue that I see is that most
web servers are not Windows based, and instead are Linux based, and
therefore cannot use dBASE apps.
Ken
--
/(Opinions expressed are purely my own, not those of dataBased
Intelligence, Inc.)/
*Ken Mayer* [dBVIPS]
/Golden Stag Productions/
dBASE at goldenstag dot net
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase/dBASEBook.htm
http://www.goldenstag.net/GSP
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase
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| But don t CGI standards enable compatilbility with all platforms ? And is dbase not CGI compatible like PHP and Perl ?
(To be clear when I say apps, I mean the usual protocols enabling to handle order forms on a commercial site.)
Dom
Ken Mayer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> dlit wrote:
>
> I can't get into all of it ... the biggest issue that I see is that most
> web servers are not Windows based, and instead are Linux based, and
> therefore cannot use dBASE apps.
>
> Ken
>
> --
> /(Opinions expressed are purely my own, not those of dataBased
> Intelligence, Inc.)/
>
> *Ken Mayer* [dBVIPS]
> /Golden Stag Productions/
> dBASE at goldenstag dot net
> http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase/dBASEBook.htm
> http://www.goldenstag.net/GSP
> http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase
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| David Ball 2006-10-31, 12:18 am |
| Hi Dom
> But don t CGI standards enable compatilbility with all platforms ? And is
dbase
> not CGI compatible like PHP and Perl ?
> (To be clear when I say apps, I mean the usual protocols enabling to
handle order
> forms on a commercial site.)
> Dom
Excuse me for barging in on an existing conversation.
CGI is a protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Commo...nter
face
It concerns itself with "how" HTML talks with external applications in the
sense that any HTML page can make a request to any CGI-compliant
application. For example, an HTML page residing on a FreeBSD server can make
a request to a dBASE application residing on a Windows server. It's all
transparent from a browser but you can see it in action right here:
http://www.adojji.org/dhi/
The front end adojji.org server is FreeBSD, but through the miracles of
modern technology (apache mod_proxy, CGI) it can make a request to a Windows
box, in a completely different room!<g> (The Windows box is necessary
because dBASE is a Windows-only software. Both of these servers are in my
house, and it is also necessary that the Windows box be shut down at night,
so the dBASE applications may not respond at all times. For closer-to-100%
availability, use the ChelseaData.ca version.)
CGI ensures that the conversation between the HTML page request and the
application, whereever they are, follows certain rules regarding, well,
whatever needs to be enforced to ensure a smooth conversation.
To sum up:
CGI only ensures that web pages can talk with web applications. It ensures
compatibility between platforms.
BUT
It does not mean that you can run dBASE software on any platform. (I'm
actively working on running dBASE on other platforms, as well. I will be
producing some sort of newsgroup post ... real soon now. Results are still
discouraging, but are improving from several years ago.)
Thank you
David Ball
www.ChelseaData.ca
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| David Ball 2006-10-31, 12:18 am |
| Hi Dom
> What is experimented people in web apps opinion about dbase
> versus other programmation languages especially php and perl ?
> Plus and minus taking also into account all questions of security
> programming ? Thanks for advice.
> Dom
I have 15 years experience with dBASE. I have about 5 years of using php on
a part-time basis. I have no experience with perl.
Language objective:
dBASE is a general purpose programming language / data environment. It does
many many things, one of which is web applications.
php was specifically written for web applications - the "hp" part of the
name is hypertext pre-processor. Because of this, php has many more built-in
functions for stuff that a web app would want to do. php is now being
extended, by various means, to do desktop applications as well.
Cost:
dBASE is a commercial product.
php is free and open-source.
Platform:
dBASE is Windows-only.
php has versions for many different platforms.
Userbase:
dBASE has a small but fanatical userbase, consisting mainly of cranky old
semi-retired programmers.<g><g><g> ;-) ;-)
php is used around the world by a wide variety of users with varying skill
levels.
Security:
php has had some vulnerabilities. Because of it's popularity, it is probably
targetted more often by blackhats. Fixes come out quickly.
dBASE, as far as I recall, has had no vulnerabilities reported. Do I think
it is more secure than php? Maybe, probably not. Because the source is not
available, and because of the smaller userbase, dBASE benefits from the
"security by obscurity" cloak of invisibility.
Speed:
I have not done any comparative speed tests.
php is fast.
dBASE is fast enough, but has that whole runtime thing and the legacy BDE
ball and chain holding it back.
Load:
php will run under very heavy loads.
dBASE, from what I have read by others, may have problems beyond a certain
point. I have not had this experience myself, but maybe my websites just
aren't busy enough.
Conclusions:
I'm biased - I have more experience with dBASE, so I am more comfortable
with writing dBASE code. I can crank out something pretty quick, if
required. The web application / runtime setup has been very solid and
robust. Any security problems were caused by stuff I wrote, not an inherent
dBASE problem.
I like php - I use it for a lot of formatting and templating stuff, as well
as some data applications. Still takes a bit longer, if I have to figure out
how to do something, but that's a factor of experience.
Good luck with your choice
David Ball
www.ChelseaData.ca
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| Hi David
Don t apologize, this is an open issue. Thanks for your information. In short does it mean, as I thought, that CGI enables the communication between all server platforms and therefore the apps therein ? And consequently that through Apache, dbase apps.exe
s can run on any server ?
If so and further to that point, do you have an opinion about choosing dbase i/o PHP/Perl for activating an e-commerce site page ?
Dom
David Ball Wrote:
> Hi Dom
>
> dbase
> handle order
>
> Excuse me for barging in on an existing conversation.
>
> CGI is a protocol:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Commo...nter
face
> It concerns itself with "how" HTML talks with external applications in the
> sense that any HTML page can make a request to any CGI-compliant
> application. For example, an HTML page residing on a FreeBSD server can make
> a request to a dBASE application residing on a Windows server. It's all
> transparent from a browser but you can see it in action right here:
> http://www.adojji.org/dhi/
> The front end adojji.org server is FreeBSD, but through the miracles of
> modern technology (apache mod_proxy, CGI) it can make a request to a Windows
> box, in a completely different room!<g> (The Windows box is necessary
> because dBASE is a Windows-only software. Both of these servers are in my
> house, and it is also necessary that the Windows box be shut down at night,
> so the dBASE applications may not respond at all times. For closer-to-100%
> availability, use the ChelseaData.ca version.)
> CGI ensures that the conversation between the HTML page request and the
> application, whereever they are, follows certain rules regarding, well,
> whatever needs to be enforced to ensure a smooth conversation.
>
> To sum up:
> CGI only ensures that web pages can talk with web applications. It ensures
> compatibility between platforms.
> BUT
> It does not mean that you can run dBASE software on any platform. (I'm
> actively working on running dBASE on other platforms, as well. I will be
> producing some sort of newsgroup post ... real soon now. Results are still
> discouraging, but are improving from several years ago.)
>
> Thank you
> David Ball
> www.ChelseaData.ca
>
>
| |
| Ken Mayer [dBVIPS] 2006-10-31, 12:18 am |
| dlit wrote:
> But don t CGI standards enable compatilbility with all platforms ? And is dbase not CGI compatible like PHP and Perl ?
> (To be clear when I say apps, I mean the usual protocols enabling to handle order forms on a commercial site.)
> Dom
dBASE web apps require the RUNTIME and the BDE, and therefore require
Windows.
Ken
--
/(Opinions expressed are purely my own, not those of dataBased
Intelligence, Inc.)/
*Ken Mayer* [dBVIPS]
/Golden Stag Productions/
dBASE at goldenstag dot net
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase/dBASEBook.htm
http://www.goldenstag.net/GSP
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase
| |
| David Ball 2006-10-31, 12:18 am |
| > Hi David
> In short does it mean, as I thought, that CGI enables the
> communication between all server platforms and therefore the
> apps therein ? And consequently that through Apache, dbase
> apps.exes can run on any server ?
CGI ensures the communication between request and response. Through Apache
(or other server software, I assume), dBASE apps can run on any WINDOWS
server, as shown in the example that I gave in the first response.
> If so and further to that point, do you have an opinion about
> choosing dbase i/o PHP/Perl for activating an e-commerce site
> page ?
> Dom
Please see my response to the original question further down the thread. I
have made some comparison points that may be of some assistance, but my
conclusion is based on my familiarity and comfort with dBASE.
Thank you
David Ball
www.ChelseaData.ca
| |
|
| This is quite an answer. Thank you David.
Dom
David Ball Wrote:
> Hi Dom
>
>
> I have 15 years experience with dBASE. I have about 5 years of using php on
> a part-time basis. I have no experience with perl.
>
> Language objective:
> dBASE is a general purpose programming language / data environment. It does
> many many things, one of which is web applications.
> php was specifically written for web applications - the "hp" part of the
> name is hypertext pre-processor. Because of this, php has many more built-in
> functions for stuff that a web app would want to do. php is now being
> extended, by various means, to do desktop applications as well.
>
> Cost:
> dBASE is a commercial product.
> php is free and open-source.
>
> Platform:
> dBASE is Windows-only.
> php has versions for many different platforms.
>
> Userbase:
> dBASE has a small but fanatical userbase, consisting mainly of cranky old
> semi-retired programmers.<g><g><g> ;-) ;-)
> php is used around the world by a wide variety of users with varying skill
> levels.
>
> Security:
> php has had some vulnerabilities. Because of it's popularity, it is probably
> targetted more often by blackhats. Fixes come out quickly.
> dBASE, as far as I recall, has had no vulnerabilities reported. Do I think
> it is more secure than php? Maybe, probably not. Because the source is not
> available, and because of the smaller userbase, dBASE benefits from the
> "security by obscurity" cloak of invisibility.
>
> Speed:
> I have not done any comparative speed tests.
> php is fast.
> dBASE is fast enough, but has that whole runtime thing and the legacy BDE
> ball and chain holding it back.
>
> Load:
> php will run under very heavy loads.
> dBASE, from what I have read by others, may have problems beyond a certain
> point. I have not had this experience myself, but maybe my websites just
> aren't busy enough.
>
> Conclusions:
> I'm biased - I have more experience with dBASE, so I am more comfortable
> with writing dBASE code. I can crank out something pretty quick, if
> required. The web application / runtime setup has been very solid and
> robust. Any security problems were caused by stuff I wrote, not an inherent
> dBASE problem.
> I like php - I use it for a lot of formatting and templating stuff, as well
> as some data applications. Still takes a bit longer, if I have to figure out
> how to do something, but that's a factor of experience.
>
> Good luck with your choice
> David Ball
> www.ChelseaData.ca
>
>
| |
|
| I see. Do you have any data about the percentage of Win/Linux ratio among servers ? Would be surprising Windows not to be bulk. Anyway the recent agreement between Microsoft and Linux will hopefully lead to some universal standard and in the meanwile to b
ridges that might be on servers. What do you think ?
Dom
Ken Mayer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> dlit wrote:
>
> dBASE web apps require the RUNTIME and the BDE, and therefore require
> Windows.
>
> Ken
>
> --
> /(Opinions expressed are purely my own, not those of dataBased
> Intelligence, Inc.)/
>
> *Ken Mayer* [dBVIPS]
> /Golden Stag Productions/
> dBASE at goldenstag dot net
> http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase/dBASEBook.htm
> http://www.goldenstag.net/GSP
> http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase
| |
| Ken Mayer [dBVIPS] 2006-11-07, 7:13 pm |
| dlit wrote:
> I see. Do you have any data about the percentage of Win/Linux ratio
> among servers ? Would be surprising Windows not to be bulk. Anyway
> the recent agreement between Microsoft and Linux will hopefully lead
> to some universal standard and in the meanwile to bridges that might
> be on servers. What do you think ?
I have no idea what the actual percentage is, but I would be willing to
bet it was lower than you think. Web servers tend to be Linux based
because of the stability of Linux under heavy usage, and it being more
secure than Windows. There's probably someone who's done some sort of
statistical research on this, but I wouldn't know who or where.
Regarding the Linux/Windows thing -- well, we'll see. I tend to be
rather cynical about a lot of this stuff. <g>
Ken
--
/(Opinions expressed are purely my own, not those of dataBased
Intelligence, Inc.)/
*Ken Mayer* [dBVIPS]
/Golden Stag Productions/
dBASE at goldenstag dot net
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase/dBASEBook.htm
http://www.goldenstag.net/GSP
http://www.goldenstag.net/dbase
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