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| I need to put together an app that can download emails to a table, and manage them based on info in the subject line. This download would need to be done for every person in the office. That is, every person in the office would have their email checked
by the app, and relevant emails would be downloaded into a table for further processing.
I have heard there are some third party options that give you this kind of flexibility. Can anyone make a suggestion?
I have seen posts here that suggest Outlook can be used for managing email from inside dbase, as well as Outlook Express. Is there anywhere where this has been put together in a single (or couple) of documents? Any chance there is a document like those
set up for MS Word or Excel?
Thanks,
Rick
| |
| Robert Bravery 2005-07-14, 3:23 am |
| HI,
Are you going to scan e-mail, directly on the users machines within their
e-mail client, e-mails that they have already download, or do theses emails
still need to be downloaded.
If you are wanting to look inside the already downloaded e-mail in the email
client of the user, then probably OLE would work. But you could experience
problems, because of the different e-mail clients available, you would have
to be certain that a particular user or group of users are using a certain
email client, and that they will not change in the future
Robert
"Rick" <Sportman7@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:ZsYM61DiFHA.1796@news-server...
> I need to put together an app that can download emails to a table, and
manage them based on info in the subject line. This download would need to
be done for every person in the office. That is, every person in the office
would have their email checked by the app, and relevant emails would be
downloaded into a table for further processing.
>
> I have heard there are some third party options that give you this kind of
flexibility. Can anyone make a suggestion?
>
> I have seen posts here that suggest Outlook can be used for managing email
from inside dbase, as well as Outlook Express. Is there anywhere where this
has been put together in a single (or couple) of documents? Any chance
there is a document like those set up for MS Word or Excel?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
| |
| Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] 2005-07-14, 7:23 am |
| Rick wrote:
> I need to put together an app that can download emails to a table, and manage them based on info in the subject line. This download would need to be done for every person in the office. That is, every person in the office would have their email checke
d by the app, and relevant emails would be downloaded into a table for further processing.
>
> I have heard there are some third party options that give you this kind of flexibility. Can anyone make a suggestion?
This would be very easy to do with Marshall Soft's SEE4DB -- assuming
the mail is stored and scanned on a server and not on the clients.
| |
|
| Hi Robert,
Taht is part of my problem in that I am woefully uninformed on the technical aspects of getting the email. I need the app to be fairly automatic, tho, so that would mean I would like the app to do any necessary downloads, not individual users. I expect
that would mean I need more than just looking in the already downloaded e-mail.
However, I did expect I would have a table where the users would update their email clients and addresses should they change. Also, I do expect the email client to stay fairly constant for this population.
Any reading you know of that I could get myself more informed? It feels awkward to ask questions when I am running a bit bliind on this topic, tho I sure appreciate the patience of everyone here.
Thanks,
Rick
means
new to this.
Robert Bravery Wrote:
> HI,
>
> Are you going to scan e-mail, directly on the users machines within their
> e-mail client, e-mails that they have already download, or do theses emails
> still need to be downloaded.
> If you are wanting to look inside the already downloaded e-mail in the email
> client of the user, then probably OLE would work. But you could experience
> problems, because of the different e-mail clients available, you would have
> to be certain that a particular user or group of users are using a certain
> email client, and that they will not change in the future
>
> Robert
>
> "Rick" <Sportman7@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:ZsYM61DiFHA.1796@news-server...
> manage them based on info in the subject line. This download would need to
> be done for every person in the office. That is, every person in the office
> would have their email checked by the app, and relevant emails would be
> downloaded into a table for further processing.
> flexibility. Can anyone make a suggestion?
> from inside dbase, as well as Outlook Express. Is there anywhere where this
> has been put together in a single (or couple) of documents? Any chance
> there is a document like those set up for MS Word or Excel?
>
>
| |
|
| Hi Michael,
Am pretty uninformed on some of the issues here, but I like that word "easy". The clients using the app will vary, so it will be hard to know for sure how the emails are stored (server or client).
When you say stored on the server, does that mean stored on the Web Server which would require the app to log in to the web server and do the download. And stored on the client means the emails are downloaded automatically to the local lnetwork server ha
rd drive so no web login would be required?
As you can see, I am a real beginner on this. I will check out marshallsofts site and see if they have something for me to read to get better up to speed on these issues. Or maybe you can suggest something?
Thanks,
Rick
Thanks,
Rick
Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> Rick wrote:
ked by the app, and relevant emails would be downloaded into a table for further processing.[color=darkred]
>
> This would be very easy to do with Marshall Soft's SEE4DB -- assuming
> the mail is stored and scanned on a server and not on the clients.
| |
| Robert Bravery 2005-07-14, 8:23 pm |
| HI Rick,
Ok I see a bit of confusion. So lets take this one at a time
Two questions.
1. Will the clients/users be downloading the e-mail
If so what e-mail client will they be using.
2. Do you need dbase to download e-mail
if so, would dbase be trying to get to e-mail already downloaded to the
client/users pc, or is the e-mail still sitting on a POP/SMTP server
somewhere waiting for dbase to download it.
If we can get clear direction as to where you want to go and what you want
to achive and what is being done at the moment, I'm sure we will come to a
proper solution.
Robert
"Rick" <Sportman7@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:ahV7cpMiFHA.1796@news-server...
> Hi Robert,
>
> Taht is part of my problem in that I am woefully uninformed on the
technical aspects of getting the email. I need the app to be fairly
automatic, tho, so that would mean I would like the app to do any necessary
downloads, not individual users. I expect that would mean I need more than
just looking in the already downloaded e-mail.
>
> However, I did expect I would have a table where the users would update
their email clients and addresses should they change. Also, I do expect the
email client to stay fairly constant for this population.
>
> Any reading you know of that I could get myself more informed? It feels
awkward to ask questions when I am running a bit bliind on this topic, tho I
sure appreciate the patience of everyone here.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> means
>
> new to this.
>
> Robert Bravery Wrote:
>
their[color=darkred]
emails[color=darkred
]
email[color=darkred]
experience[color=dar
kred]
have[color=darkred]
certain[color=darkre
d]
to[color=darkred]
office[color=darkred
]
kind of[color=darkred]
email[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
>
| |
|
| Robert Bravery Wrote:
> HI Rick,
> Ok I see a bit of confusion. So lets take this one at a time
> Two questions.
> 1. Will the clients/users be downloading the e-mail
> If so what e-mail client will they be using.
The goal of the app is to minimize any interaction between users and their email for certain types of email messages. That is, if an email message has a specific string in the subject, that email message would be managed by the dbase app - downloaded and
then records created based on the subject, with the record including the message content of course and any attahcments.
One concern I had is the lack of a multithreading capability in dbase, in that as emails arrive during the day, it is unclear how those would be downloaded. However, this could be initiated whenever they enter the email portion of the app to see their cu
rrent email. Alternatively, since the app will be opened most of the day, I believe I could use a timer to poll the email and complete the downloads during inactivity so that there is less of a wait when they do choose to look at their email from inside
the app. Or am I off base there?
> 2. Do you need dbase to download e-mail
> if so, would dbase be trying to get to e-mail already downloaded to the
> client/users pc, or is the e-mail still sitting on a POP/SMTP server
> somewhere waiting for dbase to download it.
>
This is a difficult one, since it is always posssible a user may decide to check their email before the dbase app has made any attempt to download (especially if attempts to download by the app would only happen inside the app, and the user may not have o
pened the app that day yet.). If I am not mistaken, tho, as long as the user does not delete the email, it will still be downloaded the next time the app checks to do a download, right?
Many thanks for your patience,
Rick
| |
| Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] 2005-07-15, 3:23 am |
| Rick wrote:
>
> The goal of the app is to minimize any interaction between users and their email for certain types of email messages. That is, if an email message has a specific string in the subject, that email message would be managed by the dbase app - downloaded a
nd then records created based on the subject, with the record including the message content of course and any attahcments.
Do you or someone at your company have administrative control over the
mail server? If you do have such control, you can probably configure the
mail server to "filter" messages with the specified string in the
subject line and forward those message to another email account. Then
your dbase app would check a single account; the user can not POP the
server before your dbase app; and you will not need to look for messages
downloaded to the local hard drives.
| |
|
| HI Michael,
I think thats the answer, except for one problem. That is if they don't have
a inhouse e-mail server. THey would then have to negotiate with their ISP,
or whoever is hosting their mail to do the same thing. They would then use
dbase to POP3 that new email box
Robert
"Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS]" <nuwermj@nospam.please.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yE6AlJPiFHA.1768@news-server...
> Rick wrote:
their email for certain types of email messages. That is, if an email
message has a specific string in the subject, that email message would be
managed by the dbase app - downloaded and then records created based on the
subject, with the record including the message content of course and any
attahcments.[color=darkred]
>
> Do you or someone at your company have administrative control over the
> mail server? If you do have such control, you can probably configure the
> mail server to "filter" messages with the specified string in the
> subject line and forward those message to another email account. Then
> your dbase app would check a single account; the user can not POP the
> server before your dbase app; and you will not need to look for messages
> downloaded to the local hard drives.
| |
|
| Michael,
Hmm, that sounds good but must be sure I understand. It sounds like when you say " the user can not POP the
> server before your dbase app; and you will not need to look for messages
> downloaded to the local hard drives."that those messages once popped would no longer be available on the server for the app to download. Is that right?
Or does just checking their email not actually remove it from the server, and the concern is just that a user may delete a message from outside the dbase app on the server and make that message unavailable for download?
Sorry, as you can see I have a pretty elemental understanding of how this works. Really appreciate your patience.
One problem is that the app is for general distribution, so each installation could have a different situation. For those who have administrative control, we could do as you suggest. It sounds like the dbase app would then check that address for all ema
ils to download.
For those without, they could distribute only one email address for these types of office related emails. They are actually emails associated with a case that is stored in a table, so all case related email correspondence on all cases for all office staf
f could go directly to a single email address, which would then be checked by the app. and distributed. The address could be password protected such that only the app could get access to the messages there. This way they could set something up even if t
hey do not have an inhouse email server.
Thanks again,
Rick
Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> Rick wrote:
and then records created based on the subject, with the record including the message content of course and any attahcments.[color=darkred]
>
> Do you or someone at your company have administrative control over the
> mail server? If you do have such control, you can probably configure the
> mail server to "filter" messages with the specified string in the
> subject line and forward those message to another email account. Then
> your dbase app would check a single account; the user can not POP the
> server before your dbase app; and you will not need to look for messages
> downloaded to the local hard drives.
| |
| Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] 2005-07-15, 8:23 pm |
| Rick wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Hmm, that sounds good but must be sure I understand. It sounds like when you say " the user can not POP the
>
This feature is typically controlled by the email client software.
Generally all of the popular email clients fetch a message and then send
a delete command to remove that message from the server. You could
configure the clients to not send the delete request (leave mail on
server, or some such thing), but that means 1) you must manually
configure each client; 2) trues that the users will not change the
setting; and 3) find a strategy to manage the accumulation of message on
the server.
If you use SEE4DB in a dBASE application there is a function you call to
delete a message. It is not automatic.
[color=darkred]
>
>
> Or does just checking their email not actually remove it from the server, and the concern is just that a user may delete a message from outside the dbase app on the server and make that message unavailable for download?
>
> Sorry, as you can see I have a pretty elemental understanding of how this works. Really appreciate your patience.
>
> One problem is that the app is for general distribution, so each installation could have a different situation. For those who have administrative control, we could do as you suggest. It sounds like the dbase app would then check that address for all e
mails to download.
>
> For those without, they could distribute only one email address for these types of office related emails. They are actually emails associated with a case that is stored in a table, so all case related email correspondence on all cases for all office st
aff could go directly to a single email address, which would then be checked by the app. and distributed. The address could be password protected such that only the app could get access to the messages there. This way they could set something up even if
they do not have an inhouse email server.
Either of these two options should reasonable to me. Checking the email
accounts of all users sounds like a nightmare.
| |
|
| Michael,
Thanks, this has been very educational. Just one more question.
When individual users pop the server for their email, are the messages downloaded to their workstation hard drive and then deleted from the web server, or could it be configured to download to a place on the local network server where they could be checke
d by the app?
If they do not control the email server and must use one email address for all incoming email (the majority of installations I'm afraid) I can see users complaining they cannot use the same email address as always once the app is in place.
Thanks,
Rick
Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
> This feature is typically controlled by the email client software.
> Generally all of the popular email clients fetch a message and then send
> a delete command to remove that message from the server. You could
> configure the clients to not send the delete request (leave mail on
> server, or some such thing), but that means 1) you must manually
> configure each client; 2) trues that the users will not change the
> setting; and 3) find a strategy to manage the accumulation of message on
> the server.
>
> If you use SEE4DB in a dBASE application there is a function you call to
> delete a message. It is not automatic.
>
>
>
emails to download.[color=darkred]
staff could go directly to a single email address, which would then be checked by the app. and distributed. The address could be password protected such that only the app could get access to the messages there. This way they could set something up even
if they do not have an inhouse email server.[color=darkred]
>
> Either of these two options should reasonable to me. Checking the email
> accounts of all users sounds like a nightmare.
| |
| Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] 2005-07-15, 8:23 pm |
| Rick wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Thanks, this has been very educational. Just one more question.
>
> When individual users pop the server for their email, are the
messages downloaded to their workstation hard drive and then deleted
from the web server,
This is typically the default configuration of mail servers and mail
clients. (the message is deleted from the mail (not web) server. But you
know that <g>.)
network server
where they could be checked by the app?
What is "it" the server or the client? The client does the downloading.
Most email client let the user define the folder where mail is stored
and that folder can be a network resource. But you will still have a
mass configuration issue to deal with.
[color=darkred]
>
> If they do not control the email server and must use one
email address for all incoming email (the majority of installations
I'm afraid) I can see users complaining they cannot use the
same email address as always once the app is in place.
I thought your plan was to have only some messages sent to the common
account. If that is not the case, then you still have a problem, and I'm
not altogether sure how to solve it at this time. In general, though, I
think you will need a solution that involves the mail server in some way.
| |
|
| Michael,
I think I am getting it, but...
Let's say we have them configure each user to use the local network server such that when they log in to the email server, their messages are downloaded to the network and erased from the email server.
The dbase app would then use a table of email addresses and would check the server hard drive and poll those addresses to search for new messages with specific subject text. The dbase app would store those in another table and delete them from the local
server.
Is the mass configuration issue you refer to the setup of each users email to use the network server drive not the local drive to indicate to the email client where the messages are stored?
If that is Issue 1, Issue 2 is that the user may change this and lost messages result.
Issue 3 is that the user may decide to delete the message directly before the dbase app has downloaded it.
And Issue 4 would be the time it would take for the app to cycle thru all the users to check for messages that fit the subject requirements.
Are there other issues I am missing?
Sorry to be persistent here, but having dealt with these users before, I'd like to find a way to give them options that would include still using their individual email addresses provided they know and accept the risks. I can always give them the easiest
and safest option. This way they are a little less likely to complain.
Thanks again for your expertise,
Rick
Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> messages downloaded to their workstation hard drive and then deleted
> from the web server,
>
> This is typically the default configuration of mail servers and mail
> clients. (the message is deleted from the mail (not web) server. But you
> know that <g>.)
>
>
> network server
> where they could be checked by the app?
>
> What is "it" the server or the client? The client does the downloading.
> Most email client let the user define the folder where mail is stored
> and that folder can be a network resource. But you will still have a
> mass configuration issue to deal with.
>
> email address for all incoming email (the majority of installations
> I'm afraid) I can see users complaining they cannot use the
> same email address as always once the app is in place.
>
> I thought your plan was to have only some messages sent to the common
> account. If that is not the case, then you still have a problem, and I'm
> not altogether sure how to solve it at this time. In general, though, I
> think you will need a solution that involves the mail server in some way.
| |
| Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] 2005-07-15, 8:23 pm |
| Rick wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I think I am getting it, but...
>
> Let's say we have them configure each user to use the local network server such that when they log in to the email server, their messages are downloaded to the network and erased from the email server.
>
> The dbase app would then use a table of email addresses and would check the server hard drive and poll those addresses to search for new messages with specific subject text. The dbase app would store those in another table and delete them from the loca
l server.
No I don't think it will work this way. Once the client software
downloads a message from the mail server it is stored in a local
formate. Thunderbird will store the data differently than Outlook, and
Outlook Express is different again. Knowing the email address is of no
use after the download. You will need to read the messages directly from
the email client software. And I know that this is even possible for
some client software, like, for example, Outlook Express.
>
> Is the mass configuration issue you refer to the setup of each users email to use the network server drive not the local drive to indicate to the email client where the messages are stored?
Yes. Furthermore I don't think you should distribute software to
customers which makes requirements on local email software that isn't
even a part of your application. If I were a customer I would not like
this. I have some good reasons why I want my user's email stored on
local drives.
>
> If that is Issue 1, Issue 2 is that the user may change this and lost messages result.
>
> Issue 3 is that the user may decide to delete the message directly before the dbase app has downloaded it.
>
> And Issue 4 would be the time it would take for the app to cycle thru all the users to check for messages that fit the subject requirements.
>
> Are there other issues I am missing?
You seem to have the ones I raised.
>
> Sorry to be persistent here,
No problem. Better to get the design right before you give it your users.
That said, I am dubious, based on what I know so far, that you are
approaching an acceptable solution.
but having dealt with these users before, I'd like to find a way to give
them options that would include still using their individual email
addresses provided they know and accept the risks. I can always give
them the easiest and safest option. This way they are a little less
likely to complain.
>
> Thanks again for your expertise,
| |
|
| Michael,
Well I started this out knowing very little, but your crash course was great.
I know users will find it pretty restrictive to use only one email address for incoming case related email. Another option would be to give each person in the office an email address for their case management that can only be accessed thru the dbase app.
They could use a second email address for other types of email.
This still leaves issue 4 - the time required to poll each of these addresses in dbase to get the current messages. This could be minimized by only polling the currently logged in user to the app for their messages. In fact, this might be more efficient
since the number of messages would be smaller than if one email address was used for all users.
Again, a big thanks for all your insight on this.
Rick
l
Michael Nuwer [dBVIPS] Wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Rick wrote:
cal server.[color=darkred]
>
> No I don't think it will work this way. Once the client software
> downloads a message from the mail server it is stored in a local
> formate. Thunderbird will store the data differently than Outlook, and
> Outlook Express is different again. Knowing the email address is of no
> use after the download. You will need to read the messages directly from
> the email client software. And I know that this is even possible for
> some client software, like, for example, Outlook Express.
>
>
> Yes. Furthermore I don't think you should distribute software to
> customers which makes requirements on local email software that isn't
> even a part of your application. If I were a customer I would not like
> this. I have some good reasons why I want my user's email stored on
> local drives.
>
>
>
> You seem to have the ones I raised.
>
>
>
> No problem. Better to get the design right before you give it your users.
>
> That said, I am dubious, based on what I know so far, that you are
> approaching an acceptable solution.
>
>
>
> but having dealt with these users before, I'd like to find a way to give
> them options that would include still using their individual email
> addresses provided they know and accept the risks. I can always give
> them the easiest and safest option. This way they are a little less
> likely to complain.
|
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